A TALK WITH DR FUNKENSTEIN: BLACK MUSIC MONTH THROWBACK

A vintage conversationw ith George Clinton

             

Young George Clinton in his freaky prime. Photo by Bruce Talamon.

GEORGE CLINTON:  DR.FUNKENSTEIN

Singer, songwriter, producer, tricker, conceptualist, Afro-Futurist, visionary, punster, leader, psychedelic prophet, crack head, survivor, influencer and legend George Clinton aka Dr. Funkenstein wedded LSD and James Brown, spaceships and gospel harmonies, to create one of the most important bands of the ‘70s, an aggregation known as P-Funk. Under this banner the once separate vocal group Parliament and acid rock band Funkadelic, along with a slew of other interconnected musical entities, literally torn the roof off the sucka of black popular music. With stadium shows that involved spectacle and musicianship and a series of classic albums recorded in marathon sessions, Clinton extended the innovations of Brown, Sly Stone and Sun Ra into a catalog that today still inspires. He was talking retirement before Cobid-19, but right now he’s back on the road with a P-Funk lineup filled with his children, grandchildren, and associated relatives. If you get a chance to catch hin this summer do it. Clinton is one of the most important links to our collective funky past.

“I HAD GOOD CUSTOMERS”

I was singing in grade school [in Plainfield, New Jersey], and when you started back in those days, everybody had a do [hair straighten with lie], so we had to learn to do each other's hair, because it cost $5 each time you got your hair done. You couldn't dance, you couldn't make love, you couldn't do nothing without a do. That got us all into that. Our barbershop in Plainfield was a good place to rehearse and a good side gig... You could get ready, leave the barbershop, leave our customers in there a little while I go to New York to audition for a record deal for a record. I tell them, "I'll be right back." They’d wait for me. I had good customers.

At lunch with George Clinton a couple of years ago in Los Angeles.

DOO WOP

I met the Shirelles's. I had a cousin who introduced me to them. I watched them rehearse. I'd skip school and go over to New York and watch the Cadillacs, the Spaniels, the Clovers, the Orioles at the Apollo. I watched every doo-wop group in New York, in the Fort Green projects in Brooklyn. So I mean I’d go to New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington. It didn't take nothing for me to jump on a train to go see a doo-wop show in Philly, or at the Howard in Washington. So, from 13 on, we were singing with our first record, in 1957, didn't do too much, but I used to go to the Apollo and look at the wall of fame and say, "Wow, I want my picture on that with all these folks."

We were called the Parliament. In 1957 that's when groups was called after cigarettes like Chesterfields, or they were called after cars like the Bel-Airs and. So we picked Parliament. I heard that's the nastiest cigarette. I never smoked.

DETROIT
We started out doo-wop, and '59, to me, doo-wop ended, Motown brought a new doo-wop. Motown upped the game with Temptations -- they were all certain height and stepping. Pips was always my group for a stepping. Motown had everything. Smokey (Robinson) was who I idolized as a writer. That's who made me wanna write songs.

Gene Redd [?] took me to Detroit. We went into the audition for Motown. We didn't get the deal there, but I came back here. Ray Gordy, Berry's wife opened up JoeBet Music pulishing, so I used to work for her over there as a song writer. And I went out to Detroit with Gene, and we did Edwin Star, JJ Bonds. Worked the Capitals; hit “Cool Jerk.” I did background vocals.

I would go to Detroit on Mondays and worked to Friday, starting in about '63. On the weekend I’d go back to Jersey and work at the barber shop and do hair.

Images from the night we did this interview in New Jersey with associate producer Ashley Mui in the house too.

“BEEN HIPPIES SINCE THEN”
We was in the barber shop. We thought we was cool. We had Cadillacs with no license. Everybody would be triple parked, you know what I'm saying. The Cadillacs would be so cool that we thought we was gonna be players and pimps and everything. “Testify” came out in ‘67 at the same time as “flower power” and hippies.. So we got out on the road and got turned completely out. We was in Cambridge at Harvard with the kids. They be getting $64 to test acid. We didn't know what the hell they was doing. We was up there trying to get with the girls. So we took the test.

And so next thing we know we was out there! All these little kids are laughing at us, but we was having fun with the young kids. Next thing you know, we was old-as hippies. Been hippies all my life since then. And I regret none of it because I had a ball. We would learn everything there. I knew nothing about no Vietnam War -- none of that stuff. You find all that out with all these kids philosophizing and talking. We was always up to no good, but you ain't gonna be corny. You start learning what they're talking about, and then next thing I know I was down there preaching.

I'd say I'm glad I'd taken acid up. That could have been because I felt it, like America is young, and I would go on, but then I know myself that I don't know no answers. So the best I could do is just say, "What if?" So that's what most of my songs is, "What if this? Suppose this... " It's like questioning to make you think. I ain't trying to preach 'cause I don't know no answers. Shit changed so much. You know what I'm saying? And I'm seeing a do might be something that you don't want, ain't too cool to have anymore. I'm glad I was out of the barber shop by that time.
I had an Afro. I could easily wear it 'cause I was out of the shop, but if I'd had been in the shop, where the do my livelihood, I would have been pissed.

But I couldn't stay still. I cut holes in my afros. I had moons and stars and dicks. Everything designed in my hair. Long before people started cutting those designs in hair I was doing that shit way back there.


“DIAPERS AND SHEETS OR NOTHING”

It took half the group, like Calvin Simon and Ray Davis, a long time to come out of their suits. They were still wearing suits, and I was wearing diapers and sheets, or nothing. And Fuzzy Haskins and Grady Thomas was dressed like the ‘Sergeant Pepper’ cover. We was mixing in the music, it was changing slowly, and slowly records started changing slowly. And it went on that way till Bootsy came into the group. First, he was playing with us, but we knew that he had too much personality -- he had to have his own band. So what I did with him was, "Okay, help me write some tracks for Parliament, and I help you put your group together, the Rubber Band." He said, "Can I use that name?" I said, "That's your name, Rubber Band."

“MY SELF SANDWICH”

We ad libbed “Stretching Out (In A Rubber Band)” as we were walking down the street in New York, came back to Detroit and recorded it. But that was the thing. With Bootsy it was the new sound. Then he got Maceo Parker and Fred Wesley, so all of a sudden had what we call P-Funk now with James Brown type flavor and lots of voices. really particular. With Funkadelic we chant. We might sing. Might sing great. We might talk shit. We do one or the other, like we did with “One Nation (Under a Groove).” The al0bum was so good that I said wait a minute, "No, we have to go back and put some shit on here." It looked like we're trying to get a Grammy. So we went back in there and did “Promentalshitbackwashpsychosis Enema Squad (The Doo Doo Chasers,” the band in the tidy boat of your mind, bringing your music to get your shit together by. Fried ice cream is a reality. In my self sandwich, what causes all this shit? Eating me burgers. Egotistical much? Shit just pops out.

I was high as hell sometimes. That's about as mystical I got and I got pretty mystical, you know what I'm saying? (laughs.) When you tripping round on the orange waves, and yellow sunshine, and purple haze [all brands of LSD], oh, yeah, it's pretty mystical. That's that shit. Mystical, say?

MOTOR BOOTY

I used to go fishing this boat at Miami from '74 on. I used to go fishing on it till they started using the boat for the alligator. Remember ‘Miami Vice?’ Remember they had the alligator on the boat? That's the boat – the Sea Spirit. Back then, I used to go fishing and write most of the songs. I took Lynn (Mabry) and Dawn (Silva) out there, and they caught a trophy, nice big fish. Bootsy and I went all the way to Bimini and that's how we got the ‘Motor Booty Affair’ album. I took him all around the Bermuda Triangle.

UFOS IN BURNHAMTHORPE

We had just finished the ‘Mothership’ album, and ‘Stretchin' Out,’ and we were getting ready to go to Bimini. We recorded in Detroit where we finished, and headed to Toronto, where I lived and Gary (Shider) lived. So Bootsy and I came through Winsor. We got up there I guess, about 7:00 in the morning. I'm heading out. We drove down to tell Gary to get ready, and we'd be back to get him. So as we were riding back to my house, I lived in a suburb -- Burnhamthorpe Road is the road -- just before we get to the exit, we saw a light beam, long and straight, like a laser. He didn't say nothing to me and I didn't say nothing to him. But as we got to the exit, I saw him looking around. I told him, I said, "You saw that too, huh?" He said, "Yeah, what was it?" And damned if I knew. I really was tired, and then paid no more attention to it.

So we get off the highway and we riding down Burnhamthorpe. It's a country road. Pastures on both sides. Cows and shit on both sides. The same light come down through the trees, like a block-and-a-half away, and hit the ground, and splattered, almost like electricity, like a wire or something. "What the hell?" And before I could say anything, it hit on the left side of the street, so it was like “Bam!” on that side. So when it hit over there, I looked back to see if anybody else saw this, I'm looking around for... And there was this car light in my eyes, so I turned back around. So as I turned back around, it hit the car right on the passenger side.

“LIKE MERCURY IN A THERMOMETER”

And like mercury in a thermometer, you know what water and oil do, it beads up, and just runoff and dribble. That's what it did, it hit the car, sparked, but then it right rolled off the side of the car like oil and water, or mercury out of a thermometer, and so I turned to. “Johnny B. Goode” was playing. I turned the radio down. Bootsy was saying, "Fuck, what was... " That's all he could say. And when he said that, I could see the street lights running along side us just going down and it was getting dark. I remember I said we got there about 7:00 AM in the morning, okay? Ten blocks away, we can see one car go across and all the street lights was getting dim. We looked back, it was dark. The car that was behind us. "What?" Streetlights are getting dimmer and dimmer and dimmer, so he's driving off trying to keep ahead of this 'çause it's getting dark.

So we got to my house and turned the corner. Lights were on this street Blour. Got to the parking lot in my driveway. We sat there and didn't say a word to each other, neither one of us. My daughter walks out, she was about five, and said, "Oh, you all look like... You all look like you all seen a ghost." And still I didn't say nothing. It's sick, because they were kids, and even had to go to bed. It didn't occur to. We knew we came from Windsor finishing the album, early in the morning, so we know it was 7:00 o'clock in the morning. It would only take four hours to get there. So we don't know how it got to dark from when we saw the first lighT. The weird part of that light was that we saw it in daylight. That's the weird part, makes you remember that part of it, 'cause it was a light in daylight. So that's strange, that's what's strange. In my mind, I remember that it was getting dark. We lost a whole day. Ain't no doubt about it. We had gone through Canadian customs, so we had no drugs. We were clean, that's what I'm saying, unless that messed us up, 'cause we weren't clean most of the time. So that just might have been the problem.

THE CLONES

We had just finished ‘The Mothership Connection’ album that morning. Man, something happened ‘cause I don’t know shit about no cloning and none of that stuff. Was it implanted? I got all that stuff one way or another. I was in the airport in Dallas and saw this book and the book said, "Steve Swanson had docked the spaceships and all kind of ports in outer space, but the one thing he's never getting used to is these little trains at the Dallas Airport." So, I got on my train that takes you around the airport and the book was laying on the seat in the train. Nobody else was on the train. Now I'm thinking, when I read that, it's got something to do with the train, this and he said he'd never get used to these little trains with no drivers.

[Steve Swanson is a retired NASA astronaut who logged over 195 days in space and completed five spacewalks. He never wrote a book on cloning.]

When I get off the plane in Portland, and I'm walking through the airport, this damn book, it was called, The Clones, is in every bookstore throughout the airport.  It's in the whole bookcase over there, ‘The Clones.’ And I just went and I read. Then they started talking about cloning and the concept of cloning. So what I wanted to find out, was it real. The only other thing they had was ‘Chariot of the Gods’ by Erich Von Daniken. So, I found out everything about it, all the shit that's been happening. Accidents that's happened with clone material, like these funny-looking dogs and shit. People are making shit, and it's not finished, and they just turn it loose. They made shit. You got all kinds of shit showing up now. And believe me, we're part of that shit too. We came here, somebody was cloning, and made some of us. It's DNA. It's all somebody's toy.

“ALL ONE AND THE SAME”

So ‘The Clones of Dr. Funkenstein’ comes out of finding this. It starts with a light, and then it leads to the book. You have ‘Mothership,’ but you still have to tie them all together then with Dr. Funkenstein. Everything is a clone from then on. And I do that because characters last longer than people. Mickey Mouse is around for every generation. He go up and reup and come back. He's a Hip-Hop Mickey Mouse. Dr. Funkenstein and George Clinton is all one and the same. Mr. Wiggles. Maggot Minister. I clone myself. That’s why I had to go back and regroup again.
I’ve changed my whole look about four times in my life.

ISHMAEL REED’S NOVEL ‘MUMBO JUMBO’

I love that book. I love Ishmael Reed. I met some guy on the street right after ‘Mothership’ was out. He looked like a little hobbit or something. Long curly hair all the way to the floor. He just walked up to me, "I think you should have this." And I took it, "Okay, Mumbo... " I was almost insulted, Mumbo Jumbo? What are you trying to say, my boy? [chuckle] But then I started reading it, and it had that New Orleans flavor because Ishmael got into rhythm on shit. And immediately, I could tell you he was into the Masonic. He was going down to the temple and the lodge. He was going down that road. But then I realized right away they were talking about The Funk. They call it just Jes Grew, the essence of that shit that makes you the hit.

EMINEM, RAKIM & HIP-HOP

Eminem, he's straight from Detroit. He could have been part of Motown Records. His records come out like hits, like he got folks on him like Motown. I like Rakim.
He lives up to all that smooth flow. Don't break a sweat. He lives up to all of that shit and still cool and be talking that shit.  You got a lot of them out there with different styles of flipping their tongue or saying what they say. But him and Eminem -- they're unending. I just throw shit at the radio when I hear Rakim. You know what I'm saying? I've been trying to get him, Sly, Eminem, and myself together.

“IT’S THE NEW SHIT”

I love anything that I hear old folks and parents and old musicians say they hate. I hear them say, "I don't like... That ain't music." I'm gonna like that real quick, 'cause that's the next music.
Kids do what you don't like. They find a way to get on your nerve. So whatever comes out that gets on your nerves slightly, I hurry up and make sure I get my shit out of the way, so I can find out what's going on with it, 'cause that's gonna be the new shit. When I was young it was Little Richard with Tutti Frutti." All the people learnt it. They were like, "That ain't music." What is it is rock and roll. It became what it became. We came along, we was doing. We did it from the basic raw to the slickest “funkentelchy,” you know what I'm saying? We went from one end, but sooner or later, somebody comes along and takes it back to square one with the simplicity. It always gonna do that. And when it comes, people will say, "What is that? It's getting on my nerve with that. What is that? What is that?” "It's the new shit."

“WE EXAGGERTED IT”

Bootsy had been to James Brown's school. So, he knew what it means to be one, two, three, four/ one, two, three, four, one. He knew the essence of that. So, when he brought it to us... I'm from Motown. I can figure out what the click is in anything. There's a whole lot of folks there that had all kinds of style. But once I realized what “the one” was what it is on James' record, we’d just get stupid with it. We exaggerated it. And clowned it from then on. Bootsy and his brother Catfish -- they had the same essence that they had with James -- that lock. You could go to work by that time and you don’t need no metronome with Catfish and Bootsy.


“A LOT OF DOPE IN THAT”

All the samples from are James Brown, P-Funk. Then all the songs that had that raw, unprocessed, 'cause you have a lot of room, so you can process it yourself.
There must have been a lot of dope in that shit. You can put a ten on it. You can sample them, and then I can sample you, and somebody can sample me, and it still work.
Sly is another one. He can write it “Hot Fun in the Summertime,” a real clever pop song. But he could also turn it over and do “A Simple Song” and be funky as James or as anybody else, and still have slick-ass puns or one-liners.

“SLY HAD THE FULL PACKAGE”

Sly had the full package. The Beatles is four, so they like ungodly. Motown had a whole bunch of producer/writers, but they're all like one artist. Sly did that shit by himself, 'cause he told all of them what to play, what to sing. He had the choir at the church, who can tell the choir what to sing, and Sly was one of them, but he grew in Oakland, where all they talking shit in the barber shop. So, he had that education. His father was a preacher. He had that soul. He went to school in San Francisco, where everybody was a little smarter than most people around that time. There were the Panthers and the Hippies, and all of that was a lot of knowledge coming from Berkeley. In the Bay they even grew bigger Afros than most people. You look at Angela Davis and Larry Graham. Sly too, but he had his wig on.  So Sly had style from talking shit, school, and church. So he had a band that could sing, and his brother Larry, his sister, Cynthia, and Jerry. That was chemistry of the highest order.

“MORE BOUNCE TO THE OUNCE”

Roger was a good one and Zapp they had a good showmanship. I took “More Bounce to the Ounce” and we didn't sample it. We just cut it and taped it together off another song he had on the album called “Funky Bounce.” That little beat. That's “More Bounce.” Sampling wasn't around yet.  I just taped them together and taped them together 'til I got 30 seconds of that. Then I called Roger back in and told him to play Wes Montgomery or James Brown guitar. Then I had him sing the talk box on the Moog and on the guitar, so you had three-part harmony on it. So it don't sound like a talk box, 'cause Sly told him, he said, "Man, after Peter Frampton, you're supposed to go bury the talk box," he said, "but what George just gave you, doing it in harmony, three-part harmony," He said, "Like a vocoder." And so, they start calling it the vocoder. It was a talk box. It was a regular talk box, but in harmony. It was brand new. “One Nation,” “Flashlight,” “Knee Deep” and “More Bounce,” all of them was done in order to harmonize a hand clap, 'cause More Bounce got the same united sound.

“OOOH THEY WERE FUNKY WHEN THEY MADE THAT”

Oh, yeah, we just lived in the studio. Everybody pulls-up a sleeping bag and waits for whenever they get to mic. Most places they talk about continuity. Who was on what part of the record he was on. We didn't care. You may be having a record here on this song, somebody else may sing the next half of the song. So you got a lot of different colorings, especially on ‘Gloryhallastoopid,’ for instance you get so many different sets of voices. Parliament, the brass, everybody went to work, so we were being then cutting there for a month.

Yeah, we didn’t bathe but that was funk then. When you get tied to the mix you don't even leave. You bring the food, and then a bath. You'll be like, "Come on and soak in, that's the doo doo." I tell the guys "You have to have the beat so loud that I wanna be able to run my hand across the record and feel it." You know what I'm saying? I'm like, "I want the funk so strong up in here, when you pick up the record you say, "Oooh, they were funky in the studio when they made that."

“THREE OR FOUR PUNS”

Motown was based on hooks and smoking puns. But I found out that the more hooks the better. Sometimes we end up having too many. You could make three songs out of one song, but then even then, I wouldn't be trying to get a single then. I'd be doing it for artsy fartsy sake. Something that might have three or four puns that they ain't got anything to do with each other. The word just happened to sound alike, and then, so I'm like, if I had nothing in line between fine and refine, confine, and just where it gets silly. But you'd be singing like it's serious, and I mean like Gospel. You're serious as hell.

KING CRIMSON TO LOUIE JORDAN

Bernie's got perfect pitch. He understood the Moog when Keith Emerson and King Crimson, all them first started playing that stuff. Bernie’s familiar with the harps and cord. He took classical music, and he's got a perfect ear, so he learned really quick how to play and adjust the knobs while he's playing, 'cause the thing is the no Moog ain't got no notes of its own. You got to make 'em. Blend this with a little decay. You gotta shape the notes while you're playing or you either have it written down, somebody would preset it. Bernie could play classical licks jazzy and in tune it at the same time. By the time we get to the ‘Mothership’ album, he had been doing this since the early '60s. He was doing it with the harps and he could make it sound like a Moog. He could actually voice a cord to make it sound like anything you think of. So, we were able to make music with ‘Mothership Connection.’ It was almost like a jazz funk James Brown, but I was also I liked the talking and the singing that Louie Jordan did like “Saturday Night Fish Fry.” So I was using all those kinda styles of music from bands over the era, 'cause early 50's, I remember that was my mothers... Everything that I liked I felt like it was Louis Jordan. “Caladonia.” “Run Joe.” It's funk.

“ITS FUNKY WHEN YOU CAN DO ALL KINDS OF STUFF”

I mean, to me the Beatles is funky as hell. So we did a lot of stuff with that attitude in mind. But it's funky when you can do all kinds of stuff.  Funk is the ability to make anything yours. Jazz is funky as all hell. 'cause I mean, who else play the first two minutes, and then I meet you back here in five minutes, and you can go out to lunch? You're funking around when you go out and you may not be too far, but you are out there funking around when you can get loose like that. And funk, the way some people do the turntables, that's an instrument now. The minute they got an anvil case for it. [laughter] You got an instrument, and they play 'em. I mean, I've seen groups, three or four of them playing turntables, and they're just like a band. They go out, they gonna elevate that shit to Jazz. You gonna get some of them so slick, and they have so much of an ear, they can solo. I mean I've seen them make up solos, take a bunch of made-up solos, chop 'em up together, and make another solo.

BEYONCE WITH A CHOIR

Beyoncé's stuff is that Houston Gospel. I mean she is like the slickest thing out here 'cause she'd do it to anything she put her mouth on. I watched her when they were about 14 and they was in a choir. Man, when you can keep coming back and get a good song and make it yours. When they was Destiny's Child, they remind me of Motown. They were like really sharp. I watched them rehearse, but like I said, I recorded them with a choir.

Their choir was like a homeless choir. Beyonce's father Mathew and a homeless guy dude was leading the choir. And they did “Standing On The Verge Of Loving the Lord.” And they never put it out but right after that, they became the group Destiny Child. And they were so good, I mean as a group. And when she just kept going I mean. But she gets a new sound, a new record, and she makes it hers. I don't know who do it, but it's gotta be her taste to wanna do it.

MY FAVORITE OF MY RECORDS (RIGHT NOW)

My favorite of my records right now is “Knee Deep” 'cause it's a slick production. I mean, first of all I would have never recorded it if it hadn't been for Junie Morrison. I used to sing it when I'm fishing, "Did the freak, never missing a beat, not just knee deep, she was a, round and round.” It was a three, four waltz tempo. [Manager] Archie Ivy said "Why don't you record that?" I said, "Nobody ain't going to dance to it.” Junie said, "Oh, it can be arranged, man." He had me sing it a cappella and he came back and put the music on it. He said, "Sing it just like you always sing it." "You did the freak, never missing... " And I realized it all fell right in place. By the time we were about finished, Phillipe Wynne was over in the corner and he said, "Yeah, you got a hit, bub, but it really ain't a red target on it." And I said, "Okay, man." And he said, "Give me 25% and $10,000 dollars." I said, "Damn, I'm gonna give you $5,000, and I will give you 10%." And he got up then and walked through it, and sang, "Could this be me in this funk so deep?" I mean he just melted into the song and the last three minutes is him.